Post by vandergraafk on Sept 7, 2006 23:31:52 GMT -5
No, Leo is a whitelighter. Whitelighters are not angels. That status seems to be reserved for specific entities such as the Angel of Death, the Angel of Destiny, of which there are multiple versions. Each of these creatures occupies a position superior to the Elders, who as we know, are above whitelighters in the hierarchy of the supernatural. Angels seem to be neutral parties: neither good nor evil. Nor are they akin to the Avatars. They are not beyond good and evil.
Post by vandergraafk on Sept 7, 2006 23:32:42 GMT -5
To which a fan replied:
Actually Leo IS an angel and was referred to as such several times in the series. He is also a Whitelighter as we know but he is an angel.
To which vandergraafk replied:
Actually, Piper refers to him as an angel, but I would scarcely consider her an expert on all things Elder-related. If whitelighters are angels, then are the Elders archangels? And, if whitelighters are angels, are they only minor (or lesser) angels when compared to the angels of death and destiny. Clearly, there is a hierarchy. The angel of destiny is not happy with the angel of death for having pointed Piper in the direction of "higher authorities".
Maybe we need to define "angel" in terms of Charmed just as we have to define "witch" in terms of Charmed. Simply important a concept from Catholocism and imposing it on Charmed makes as little sense as taking the word "Wicca" or the concept of "witch" - as used in the real, everyday world - and applying them to Charmed.
And maracev added:
Piper and Grams calling him an angel is a figure of speech. In Primrose empath Piper called Leo an angel and he corrected her and I quote "not exactly"
He is a whitelighter, not technically an angel. She just refers to him as such because for her he basically has a very similar role to an angel as a protector and is an overall really, really good guy, which we all, mere mortals refer to as "angels".
Post by vandergraafk on Sept 7, 2006 23:37:04 GMT -5
Our fan answered back:
Well I guess that is left for each one of us to interpret then at this point. It did not seem as though it was a "figure of speech" to me when they called him an angel. I dont think it is the same at all as when someone refers to someone as an "angel" in real life. We can only go by what is told in the show. I still believe he is an actual angel for purpose of the show. At least until Season 7 when he became human again. Leo to me is a Guardian Angel/Whitelighter. And when he said "not exactly" I think that was his sense of humor.
That prompted this response from vandergraafk:
No, I don't believe everyone just wants to argue. What some of us are trying to do is to make sense of language that was used in the series. Since language matters a lot, then it is important to be as precise as possible. Piper and Grams using the word angel to refer to Leo (the whitelighter) is important to note. It is a tenant of literary analysis, however, that characters are not omniscient.
Now, when another character - the whitelighter himself - disputes the phrase being used - as Maracev points out - then there is no doubt as to the lack of omniscience. They may see him as an angel, but that usage is neither descriptive of "reality" nor illuminating with respect to the structure of good: Elders, whitelighters, etc. Moreover, the angel of death and the angel of destiny are not on the side of good. They are "neutral" players in this eternal struggle between good and evil. Use of the word "angel" then to describe whitelighters muddles the issue even further.
It would be nice to refer to a book on Charmed that lays all of this out. It remains to be seen what The Book of Shadows Volume 2 will bring to us. But, as I understand it, Brad Kern and the writing staff only had a slim reference guide for the series. This was probably used as a sort of "bible". But, it can't have been sufficient, as many of us have pointed out errors. For example, Paige has already seen the Source and helped vanquish him. Yet, in Season 8, we are supposed to accept that she hasn't ever met him. Or, that Grams in Forever Charmed doesn't know her granddaughters - Prue, Piper and Phoebe - are the Charmed Ones, even though she has learned this in That 70s Episode, an episode that time-wise predates the time travel in Forever Charmed. Moreover, there is every reason to believe that Grams could not have cast a "forget this" spell at the end of That 70s Episode because she needs to cast a spell to bind the sisters' powers when Phoebe is born.
I worry that you confuse analysis with an attack either on a show you love or a character you cherish. Let me assure you that the contributors in this discussion have the highest motives. I appreciate their comments - and yours - as they help me clarify things in my mind and remind me of things that have slipped into the recesses of my mind, despite many, many viewings. I knew Piper had referred to Leo as an angel. I had forgotten that Grams had as well (in Necromancing the Stones). Thanks to Maracev (in the Primrose Empath), I remember when Leo reminded us and Piper that he was well not really an angel.