WHO'S THAT GIRL?

[vandergraafk]

In Forever Charmed, a small girl is seen receiving lunch from Piper. She stands in line behind Wyatt and Chris. Who is she? Early speculation suggested that it might have been Prudence Melinda, the girl that Piper had once seen in the future (Morality Bites) and thought she would have as her first born. Others speculated that it was in fact one of Phoebe's daughters. This made little sense however as why would one of Phoebe's daughters sleep over at the Manor. Where would the other two sisters be?

Well, speculation time is over. According to the second volume of the Book of Three, the only authorized compendium on Charmed, Melinda is indeed Piper's daughter. We may continue to speculate that her full name is Prudence Melinda, a speculation that few would dispute. One surprise, however, in this volume is the description of Matthew, the boy who orbed the book in Magic School after Leo solicited volunteers, as the first grandson of Leo and Piper. This eliminates one worrisome development in Charmedverse, namely, that teleportation can likewise be taught in Magic School. Fortunately, Matthew, who must either be Chris' or Wyatt's child, is half-whitelighter. I speculate that Matthew is indeed Wyatt's son. However, we learn too that Bianca and Chris indeed marry in the new future (even though Chris' death in Season 6 still needs to be explained!).

[vandergraafk]

You would think that with the publication of the Book of Three, Volume 2, any debate about the identity of the girl receiving a bagged lunch from Piper would be moot. However, a second thread in the Charmed Cafe went on for over 15 pages until a new contributor, Melinda, provided some different evidence. Claiming to know the actress who portrayed the never identified young girl, Melinda posted the following photo display and then provided further details (after more carping):

How many times do you want me to tell you SHE WAS ON THE WALL?

She was on that wall! They just didn't zoom in on the picture. And I can prove it to you.

Here is the picture of the wall that you so nicely put "She is not on that wall" take a good look at this picture:

(to see the picture, go to Katie's my space page or see the Charmed Cafe thread "Piper's daughter or not" page 15.)

^ That picture is from Katie's my space page from a gallery of different pictures. If you look closely, it is the exact same picture as the one in the frame. Wyatt, Chris, Melinda, one of Phoebe's daughters, Henry Jr., Paige's twins are in that picture.

In response to some criticism about the angle of the pictures (they are not the same), Melinda posted the following:

"Because Katie's mother has taken that picture and the picture in the frame is taken by a photographer on the show - it is the same one though just from the side, I don't see how that makes a difference.

The picture of the next generation is from Katie's Myspace page and you have to be her friend to view that. The picture is one of 4 from the Charmed set. It's from a slideshow there. No, you don't see them named but if you take a very good look at Paige's 3 children in her scene and then look at them in this, you will see it's them.

The two of Phoebe's daughters doesn't look like the other girl in it and the only explanation is that it's Melinda - Piper's daughter. I have no idea where Phoebe's other daughter was at the time of the photo.

In the second pic, the boys and girls are all looking at something else (The photographer taking that pic for the frame) the only one who noticed Marlayna was Tanner (Wyatt).

I think that the people who doesn't want Melinda to be Piper's daughter even though she is - is trying to make up excuses that seem good so everyone will start to believe that she isn't. I really don't understand why. It is ridiculous.

Adair Tishler and Sierra Paris - Phoebe's daughters

Tanner Fox and unknown actor - Wyatt Halliwell and Chris Halliwell

Kathleen Teresa Scott - Melinda Halliwell

Unknown twins and unknown actor - Paige's twin girls and son

If they had used the same actress for Phoebe's daughters and for Piper's, I would have believed Melinda was Phoebe's, but they didn't. So how can Melinda be Phoebe's daughter? Please tell me that. Please!"

[vandergraafk]

At this point, one might think that the discussion is over. (Not for the canonistas, under any circumstances). Unfortunately, some of the debate shfited to whether Melinda was a first - or given name - or a middle name. For several reasons, I took the view that the child was Prudence Melinda Halliwell and that referring to Piper's daughter made perfect sense.

I noted:

"As a member of an abused minority - people who are called by their middle names and only reluctantly answer to their first names - (tell that to every official document you've ever encountered!), let me just say that this really is a tempest in a teapot. Prudence Melinda it is. She is just called by her middle name.

Why? Imagine how difficult it would be for both Piper and Phoebe to have to call out Prue's name whenever rounding up the kids for baths, suppertimes, whatever. That Prue met with such a vicious death is one very compelling reason to go with Melinda, even if it is her middle name.

With this, Piper memorializes her deceased sister and acknowledges that this was her original choice (in Morality Bites). She also shields her daughter from the pain and discomfort she would surely experience when the image of her deceased aunt was constantly conjured.

Whenever anyone calls me by my first name, I cringe. Especially now that my father is deceased. It was his name; and, though I am proud that I was named after him, everything I do emanates from the name I've always been called: the middle name. So, that's why I prefer my self-chosen moniker: vandergraafk. Go figure!"

I confess I wasn't the first to note that Melinda could be a middle name. As The Matriarch (from South Africa) pointed out:

"I'm pretty sure Kern stuck with Prudence Melinda for Piper's daughter but many people in my country go my their middle names & not their first & the first name is then usually carried on to the child one day so that could explain why the granddaughter was named Prudence."

[vandergraafk]

Melinda struck back by asserting that Prudence, the granddaughter who closes the door to the series finale, is Melinda's daughter. Thus, it would make no sense that Melinda would name her daughter Prudence if Prudence had been her own name. As Melinda wrote:

"If the script said her name was Melinda then it clearly isn't Prudence Melinda anymore. Piper's granddaughter (the one who closed the door to the manor) was named Prudence as a final nod to Prue. It is believed to be Melinda's daughter. If she is Melinda's daughter, then I seriously doubt that Prudence would be Melinda's name. It would become too confusing. Besides Piper could have decided to switch the names around "Melinda Prudence" that would make sense as well."

Now, we are really into speculation here. First, Melinda Prudence does not flow as well as Prudence Melinda. Second, many people go by their middle names. Third, we have no way of determining whose daughter Prudence is. I think she is the daughter of Chris and Bianca. Others believe it is Wyatt's. The only thing certain is that it is Piper's granddaughter.

[vandergraafk]

Of course, none of this can ever satisfy the canonistas. If it wasn't shown on air, it doesn't exist, despite what the script called for, what deleted scenes had to offer, what the scene direction instructed... As Melinda noted:

"It was STILL stated in the original casting script that the girl we saw in Piper's scene was named Melinda. Even if it wasn't mentioned exclusively in the episode then she was still named Melinda. Piper also said during her narration "And Leo and I finally had our daughter" but it wasn't said either and I do not know why. Maybe the editors didn't think that some people would get into their heads that the girl in Piper's scene is actually Phoebe's and not Piper's. If there's a girl shown with Piper, it is obviously supposed to be her daughter and not Phoebe's. Phoebe's daughters were shown with Phoebe. And to your information, A LOT was cut from that episode, including other scenes with the kids."

[vandergraafk]

Whitelightertony succintly and cogently summarized all of the evidence indicating that the girl in question is Piper's daughter. He begins by quoting ShantaD, canonista supreme.

(Quoting ShantaD): '"Are you kidding me? I've seen the episode three or four times. There is absolutely no scene where any child is called "Melinda". Piper named her daughter "Melinda" in "Morality Bites" not in the finale. Please tell us all where this scene is, since apparently some people have seen it. Just show us the scene where the little girl is named either "Melinda" or "Prudence Melinda".

Tell me how someone who watched the episode, but doesn't read "Charmed Magazine" or personally know the actors, would know this little girl's name. It's a television show. It's supposed to speak for itself, not require outside research to "really" know what is going on.'

Whitelightertony then responded as follows:

"Shanta, you stated that the episode confirmed it as a "fact" that the girl is NOT Melinda.

The episode did no such thing. At most, what we see on-screen in the episode leaves it up in the air as to the girl's identity and/or actual name. But no character ever disproves the theory that she is named Melinda.

The theory that the girl is Melinda (and that was the writers' intent, based on what was implied) is due to the EVIDENCE people have deducted from.

-- the reference to Melinda Halliwell in The Book of Three: Vol. 2
-- the character reference in the actual script, as Melinda (on our board) referred
-- the fact that that, in the final version of the episode that aired, Katie only appeared on-screen with Holly, Brian, Tanner, and the boy who played Chris, and no one else from the cast
-- Kern confirming it himself in a subsequent interview

Thus, this is pretty strong evidence that the girl was intended to be Melinda, in spite of the lack of on-screen confirmation."

Contributor HollyMCombs and I simultaneously referred to the Charmed Magazine issue #14 where Brad Kern talks about the granddaughter who closes the door to the series finale. In my posting I refer to the person who relayed this question to Charmed Magazine. I posted:

"From Charmed Magazine Issue #14 (page 63), in response to a question regarding names, Brad Kern made the following statement:

I don't know (with respect to the names of Paige's children). We never had to come up with a name. I can't even remember, actually, right now, if I came up with names for the stage direction of the script. I do know that Prudence was the name of the last girl that magically closed the door on the series, but that name never made it into dialogue. But in the script or at least in my heart that was my final nod to Prue."

Perhaps part of the confusion arises from the question that was posed by a certain Kelly Follen of London who asked what the names of the sisters' future children were. Asserted was the statement that "(w)e know that Phoebe's daughter Melinda was named after Melinda Warren."

Yet, in the Book of Three Volume 2, we only know that their (Piper and Leo's) daughter, Melinda, is born when Chris is three. It seems very unlikely that both Phoebe and Piper would name a daughter Melinda, first or middle name. Imagine the confusion. Besides, as I have argued, the full name is Prudence Melinda. For the reasons both Assassin Witch and I have offered, Melinda would be the name she went by.

We also know from the Book of Three Volume 2 that Phoebe and Coop have three daughters (two and four years apart). Since Chris was conceived during Season 6 (2004) and born at season's end, then Melinda must have been conceived during 2007. Given that Coop and Phoebe don't get married until sometime after May 2006, Phoebe's conception of her first daughter would be some time thereafter - before, during or after her nuptials to Coop.

It is possible that Phoebe gave birth before Piper. However, if we accept the visionquest from The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell as correct, then Phoebe is pregnant when Chris appears to be about 4 or 5. Prudence Melinda would already have been 1 or 2 at this time.

Now Chris is already two years old by the time Forever Charmed occurs. If this is Phoebe's second child, then her first daughter is already 1 or so years old. Thus, Phoebe and Piper's daughters would be about the same age. It is highly unlikely that Phoebe and Piper would choose the same name at approximately the same time.

If, on the other hand, this is Phoebe's first daughter, then it is even less likely that Phoebe would have named her daughter the same as Piper's. She would already be aware that Piper, Leo, the boys, Auntie Paige and everyone else would have referred to Piper's daughter as Melinda.

I hope this helps! Apparently, Hollycombs and I were looking at the same issue of Charmed Magazine. Still, some of her contribution is murky. Let me summarize. Hollycombs asserts that "for those of you who believe that the girl in the scene is not Piper's daughter ..." the Book of Three Volume 2 states otherwise. No, it does not. Neither in the synopsis of the episode (Forever Charmed) nor in the family tree (page 19) is the designation of Piper's daughter as Melinda ever tied to this particular scene. All we have as proof is apparently the scene direction that surely must have this noted and Melinda's evidence from the actress who played the girl. (Have I got that correct, Melinda?)

The girl in the last scene is clearly Piper's granddaughter. Doesn't she ask Piper to read on? More, grandmama or something to that effect. Second, Kern already has indicated it was Prudence. What we don't know is whether it was Chris or Wyatt's daughter. My own preference is for Chris since Chris closed the door (violently) on Season 5. What a way to tie up loose ends!

Coincidence, I think not. As Phoebe surely would have noticed, there are no coincidences in Charmedverse. That Piper and Leo have nine grandchildren (Book of Three, Volume 2 - page 19) is mentioned. Let's see nine is three squared. The power of three, each of the three has three children. Coincidence, I think not!"

[vandergraafk]

As I also noted - in an aside - the discussion in the Charmed Cafe was the second thread to debate this issue. During the first discussion, mention was made about the actress who played Phoebe's daughter in Witchness Protection. On this issue, Melinda put paid to this nonsense as well:

"Kathleen was NEVER cast as Phoebe's daughter on the show she has only been cast as Melinda Halliwell - Piper's young daughter.

Phoebe's daughters were played by Sierra Paris and Adair Tishler in 'Forever Charmed'. Both girls made other appearances on 'Charmed' before the final episode. Sierra Paris also starred in 'Witchness Protection' and 'Hulkus Pocus' and Adair Tishler starred in 'The Jung and the Restless'. So the person some people believe to be the same is not the same at all.

The fact that the girls were played by different actresses technically proves the point that the girl in Piper's flashforward was her daughter and not Phoebe's.

They taped more than was shown in that episode. Most was cut out."

[vandergraafk]

Ever curious, whitelightertony inquired about the origin of these pictures. He queried:

"Well, in the flashforwards we only see Phoebe pregnant with her youngest daughter (while Billie babysits the two older girls)...so it's possible that, in terms of the Charmedverse, the photo was taken before Phoebe's youngest daughter was born.

Melinda -- how come you know Tanner's name, but not the names of the child actors who played the Matthews-Mitchell children and Chris?"

Melinda concluded her own wonderful contribution by speculating about the length of time the kids were involved in the photo shoots. She also corrected her previous misspeculation:

"It's okay really. I find it nice aswell. Katie, Tanner and the boy who played Chris was needed for like 2 days I believe. (I'm saying 2 days because there are more pictures where all three kids have different clothes on. In one picture it's the clothes they're wearing in the birthday pic and in another they're all in another set of clothes) So yes, they only needed Katie for two days of production.

Katie hopes to do more acting yes and has already done quite a few projects. You can read all about her projects on her IMDB page: Kathleen Teresa Scott

Edit: I have made a huge mistake in saying that the birthday party was not in the show. IT WAS. It was edited out. I had a talk with my adopted mother (Marlayna) lol via email and she revealed that the party was edited out of the show."

Melinda gave her first of several replies to whitelightertony's questions. In this response, she stated:

"Because Tanner's name was released and The Mitchell twins' names wasn't. But in that picture, Phoebe's newest girl wouldn't have been born or if she was, she would have been newborn, so it's not Phoebe's daughter. Secondly, why would Marlayna (who is Katie's mother) take pictures of a group of people where Katie isn't in? When all the other pictures has Katie in it. Katie played Piper and Leo's young daughter, Melinda who is supposed to look around 6 years old in the scene. Katie was 5 years old but turned 6 a month later."

Almost apologetically, whitelightertony responded and added a couple of other questions:

"I'm not trying to discredit you at all...I just find it odd that they didn't release the names of the other kids, since none of them had speaking roles in the flashforwards (unless some lines were cut due to time restraints).

Out of curiosity, why did the producers ask Marlayna to take the picture of the kids? I would think they'd have their own photographer on set (unless Marlayna has professional photography skills). Was there a scene filmed with the Halliwell cousins celebrating one of their birthdays, and it was probably cut from the final episode?

At any rate, the pic of the kids at the birthday party is adorable. It must have been fun working with them, even though they didn't have any lines on-camera. I'm guessing the two boys on the left are Chris and Wyatt (Tanner), the girl in red is Melinda (Katie), the two girls in matching pink are Paige's twins, the boy in blue is Henry Jr., and the girl on the left is Phoebe's oldest (either Sierra or Adair)?

But where is Phoebe's middle daughter in that pic? The youngest daughter is obviously too young to attend or not born yet.

Did the director say which kid's birthday it was supposed to be?"

Melinda responded immediately and gave a thorough answer, although she did erroneously guess that perhaps there wasn't a birthday scene. (There was, and she corrected this later.)

"You have a lot of questions and I can answer them all for you. The producer did not ask Marlayna to take a picture for them to use, Marlayna took the picture for a memory as Katie had a blast working on "Charmed". While she was taking a picture from the side, a photographer working on the show took the picture in the frame (it is the same picture though the photographer just took the picture from a front view)

As far as I know, there was no scene with one of the kid's celebrating a birthday. The picture was taken for use in that frame.

The two boys on the right are Wyatt (the blonde boy) and Chris. The girl in red is Phoebe's daughter (this is Adair) twins are Paige's and the boy next to them is Henry Jr. The girl in the white is Melinda (Katie) so you guessed everything right except for Melinda. As you can see, Katie resembles actress Holly Marie Combs quite a lot with the long darkbrown hair and that was exactly why she got the role as Melinda.

I have no idea where Phoebe's other daughter is, she might have been busy with something else while the picture was taken."

Continuing in his line of questioning, whitelightertony concluded by asking about the young actress's future plans:

"And my apologies for all the questions, I just really find the behind-the-scene details fascinating.

So the scene they filmed with Wyatt, Chris, and Melinda being sent off to school by Piper and Leo...was that filmed on the same day as when they took pics of the kids at the birthday party? (in other words, they only needed Katie for one day's worth of production?)

Does Katie hope to do more acting as she gets older?"

In her concluding response to whitelightertony's questions, Melinda noted the error in her speculation about the birthday party. She also speculated about the length of time the child actors were on the set for Forever Charmed. She posted:

"It's okay really. I find it nice aswell. Katie, Tanner and the boy who played Chris was needed for like 2 days I believe. (I'm saying 2 days because there are more pictures where all three kids have different clothes on. In one picture it's the clothes they're wearing in the birthday pic and in another they're all in another set of clothes) So yes, they only needed Katie for two days of production.

Katie hopes to do more acting yes and has already done quite a few projects. You can read all about her projects on her IMDB page: Kathleen Teresa Scott

Edit: I have made a huge mistake in saying that the birthday party was not in the show. IT WAS. It was edited out. I had a talk with my adopted mother (Marlayna) lol via email and she revealed that the party was edited out of the show."

[peanut]

Here are pictures:









I have more pictures but I am not sure whether it's okay to post them, I will have to copyright them before doing so.