SAVE THE YOUNG CHRISTY?

[vandergraafk]

An interesting question was posed by Esmeralda in the Charmed Cafe. Specifically, Esmeralda wished to know why none of the Halliwells nor Billie proposed going back in time to save a young Christy before she had been brainwashed by agents of the TRIAD? As any such attempt would have to involve time travel, the question really touched upon more profound issues in Charmedverse. While it is true that time travel became more prolific as the seasons wore on, should time travel have become more pedestrian? Are there any restrictions on its use? Under what circumstances is time travel permitted? Who decides? In answering Esmeralda's query, I touched on all of these issues. In the postings below, the general discussion is summarized and commented upon. Then, I conclude with my analysis.

[vandergraafk]

Ms. Foxfire gets us started with her take on Christy:

"I don't think Christy was ever an innocent. She knew she had been manipulated, or at least Billie tried to explain that to her. Did she listen? No."

Whitelightertony agreed when he noted:

"No, Christy was convinced that the Charmed Ones were evil and a threat to Billie, so even when Billie tried to talk some sense into her Christy couldn't fathom the possibility that Billie might be right. The concept of the Charmed Ones being unredeemable was too engrained in Christy's psyche."

Esmeralda and I both disagreed with this assessment. I wrote:


"Christy "convinced"? Of anything? No, unfortunately, what Christy was was thoroughly and slavishly brainwashed. I supposed this is Charmed's attempt to incorporate the Manchurian Candidate into the series. Why not? It borrowed liberally from plenty of fine films."

Esmeralda agreed but went further to add that young Christy ought to have been saved:

"Exactly. That's why I think she was truly the Ultimate Innocent, which the sisters should've, but didn't, save. "

Alas, whitelightertony saw no difference between convinced and brainwashed as he noted:

"Convinced, brainwashed. Same difference. "

My objection couldn't have been more vehement. I argued:

"Convince suggests persuasion. Rational arguments theoretically can alter one's perceptions if these are grounded in rational thought and do not involve faith or superstition. However, a brainwashing can be so thorough, as it was in the Manchurian candidate that maybe it becomes impossible to "rescue" the victim.

In one respect, I agree, Esmeralda, Christy, young Christy, the little girl who had been kidnapped, isolated and brainwashed for 15 years, was the Ultimate Innocent. However, that Christy was already dead before the Christy whom the Triad had great plans for was allowed to "escape" from the Underworld. No longer an innocent but a "convinced" and thorougly brainwashed advocate for the vanquish of the Charmed Ones to the benefit of the demonic Underworld, a fact she was keenly aware of and withheld from her "beloved", but easily manipulated sister Billie, Christy was only innocent to the extent that she probably was unaware that the TRIAD intended for her and Billie to die along with the Charmed Ones. "

Esmeralda took the argument one step further and argued that as follows:

"Then with anyone being able to use Coop's ring, rather than just going back to destroy the Triad, they should've used it to go back and rescue Young Christy and destroy Dumain at that time, and then bind Christy's power, the way the sisters bound Tyler, another kid with similar problems who couldn't control it. That would've taken care of the problem without any need to vanquish fellow witches. And that would mean that Billie would never be manipulated and their parents never killed. A *much* better solution than the one shown on Forever Charmed, where life means nothing unless it's a Halliwell life."

Of course, this brought the discussion to a new level, as I noted below:


"I don't know that this was foreclosed in Forever Charmed. We don't know what Billie will do with respect to her sister. We do "know" that Christy does not appear in any of the future events depicted, but that doesn't mean that she can't reappear.

So, let's for the sake of argument assume that your suggestion is worthy of investigation. First, there is no need to fixate solely on Coop's ring as a means to accomplishing the goal of rescuing young Christy. There are at least two other options. Second, do we even know enough about "love" travel, i.e., time travel via Coop's ring, to know what can and cannot be done. Third, do we know much about Billie's power of projection to say anything meaningful at all. Fourth, what about the greater good? Is it permissible to do whatever one wishes simply to save a loved one, be it a Halliwell/Warren, a Jenkins or anyone else for that matter? Let me discuss each of these in turn.

Assuming, for the time being, that the goal of rescusing a young Christy is a wise choice, I can think of several ways that this might be accomplished. First, the Halliwells or Billie could use Coop's ring to go back in time to perhaps rescuse young Christy. Or, Billie could just project herself backward in time, as she did in Forever Charmed. Or, the Halliwell's could work on a really good spell to allow both forward and backward time travel, as evil Wyatt was eventually able to accomplish in Chris Crossed. Or, the Elders could arrange for Billie to be whisked back in time. Whether the demonic Underworld would allow this is another matter. By that I mean, I assume that her location was securely cloaked, as Jerek's was in Y Tu Mummy Tambien. The 21 year old Christy was found because the Triad wished her to be found. That is, it was time to implement the plan.

As for love travel as a feasible means of altering time, I know we see this done in Forever Charmed. But, can this be done willy-nilly without the blessing of the Elders, the Angels of Destiny or both. Remember that at the conclusion of Kill Billie, Volume 2, the Angel of Destiny returns Leo but warns that this was not how the Ultimate Battle was supposed to turn out. This allowed Piper to attempt to alter time in order to save Phoebe. (I refuse to accept that Paige died. It makes no sense. And, her body was never found. It was merely asserted without any evidence to support the supposition!) Now, why should Coop's ring make any of this feasible? I haven't a clue. I fear it was merely an ad hoc solution to a problem created by the Ultimate Battle scenario as devised. Worse: when Coop took Phoebe back to view her past loves, there was not even a hint that either of them might be able to alter time. They were merely passive observers. So, how does this ring acquire the power to alter time. And, where the hell was it when Prue died? After all, that had already met a cupid in Heartbreak City.

Billie's projection power is another annoying invention. It not only gives her a lot more power than either Paige or Phoebe since Billie also has the ability of telekinesis, which apparently this power is a tremendous extension of, one not even Prue got to experience or master before her untimely death@! This power also allows her to alter time. Whoa! Who needs Tempus when all you need do is project yourself backwards in time. Why didn't the Elders allow Prue to develop this in All Hell Breaks Loose?

Fourth, when did the Charmed Ones independently acquire the right to alter time for their own selfish ends? Chris goes back in time to save the Elders, as well as Paige and Phoebe. He also tries to prevent Wyatt from turning evil and, in the process, exposes Gideon as a good Elder gone sour. Since the world that Chris came from may or may not have any Elders around any longer, they may not have objected even had they been around. Wyatt was too power obsessed to let his libido go unchecked. The Angels of Destiny probably wouldn't object either since they surely would have suspected or known that the evil future as depicted in Chris Crossed was not how it was meant to be. But saving young Christy? Surely, the Elders and the Angels of Destiny have more than a passing interest in that. And, I would argue, it cannot be assumed that the Elders, the Angels of Destiny or both would go along with the effort. Magic had not been exposed, and witches do die."

[vandergraafk]

Ms. Foxfire was not satisfied with this turn of events. She noted:

"Should we forgive someone like Christy for the things she's done and wanted to do?

Yeah, she was brainwashed but is that a perfectly good excuse for why she did what she did? Sure, the Charmed Ones could have tried a spell to try to show her the error of her ways but I somehow don't see that working. It's so engrained in her head that it would be like bending her free will.

I don't know... I just think Christy was just evil. Perhaps Christy knew deep down that she was doing something that

Drewsgal demurred and agreed with Esmeralda. She wrote:

"NO NO NO!
I agree on the going back and saving Christy etc, bt binding her powers. What would of happened when TCO died- they would of left a women- just like themselves- with a power they didn't know they had, and in that case what would of happened to Billie and her powers, would they of done the same thing.
I think that if they had saved Chrisy then as Christy grew older
she would be able to learn to control her powers as a GOOD witch. But when is Binding ever the answer?"

Vandergraafk then posed this rhetorical question.

"So, some of you disagree that even a young Christy might be saved. But, what about whether this is even feasible? Would the Elders or the Angels of Destiny even allow this?"