DID THE SOURCE TAKEOVER COLE?

[vandergraafk]

One of the extremely odd developments in Charmedverse was the vanquish of the Source and his retention in the character of Cole. Once again, Cole was riven with a duality. However, this time the Source was bent on taking over Cole and driving whatever trace of humanity Cole could fight for out of that mortal coil! How exactly did the Source accomplish this? Laiste got us started in the Charmed Cafe by posing this seemingly innocent question:

Just out of curiosity, why does everyone refer to the Source taking over Coles body? It wasn't the Source himself, it was his powers only.

[vandergraafk]

Ljones took up the challenge and offered this partial commentary:

Originally in "Charmed and Dangerous",, Cole used the Hollow to take the Source's powers, in order to help the sisters vanquish him. But after the Halliwells vanquished the Source, the latter's spirit began taking over Cole's body. The episodes that followed "Charmed and Dangerous" hint this. In fact, there are several scenes in some of the late Season 4 episodes in which both the Seer and the Source (in Cole's body) mention Cole in the third person.

vandergraafk added:

Ljones is certainly correct about events subsequent to Charmed and Dangerous. However, I think the question raised hints at a larger problem, namely, the vanquish of the Source at the conclusion of Charmed and Dangerous. First, the vanquish is a non-sequitur. If the Hollow truly does absorb all powers, then Cole as the Hollow absorbed all of the Source's powers after the Source heaved a fireball at the lunging Cole.

Once the Source has been stripped of his powers, he was utterly defenseless. The endless stream of fireballs from Cole was unnecessary. The enhanced power of three spell from the Charmed Ones was unnecessary. Yet, it happens. Why?

Certainly, the Seer let on more than she knew to Cole. Cole had no idea that he would become a repository of the Source's essence. He probably had been assured that with the return of the Hollow the Source's powers would return to the void or the Wasteland or whereever. So, what did the Seer do? Could she have cast a spell to cast the Source's essence into Cole at the time he was possessed by the Hollow? Could she have somehow cast a protection spell about the Source so that he, far being defenseless, could only be vanquished by a combination of fireballs and the enhanced power of three spell?

What was the point in the Seer doing any of this? Wouldn't she have feared that the Source's essence had already been so corrupted that implanting him inside Cole would just have continued the madness? Or, was she counting on a struggle between a maddening Source and a resistant Cole to somehow create a balance that she could use to further her own plans for control?

[Scott]

In the Charmed Cafe, Jate88 rephrased the question in perhaps a half-serious way. Jate88 put the questions as follows:

"so was it Cole's fault that he was vanqiushed in season four or is it the sister's fault."

I responded by pointing out how difficult it was to resolve this question. Both my commentary and other comments posted in the Charmed Cafe delineate the difficulty we have in answering the question definitively.

Vandergraafk noted:

"This is really a vexing question. I don't really know. In large measure, it's because I can't really tell who is talking (running the show) in the coronation scene. Is it Cole accepting his fate, i.e., possession by the Source? Or, is it the Source succumbing to the surface humanity and desire to be with Phoebe who proceeds with the coronation?

If you accept the first response, then Cole surely bears some of the blame for his vanquish since he did not communicate his dilemma to the Charmed Ones. Perhaps there would have been a way to de-possess Cole.

If you accept the second response, then it was not Cole who was vanquished but the Source. Only with his vanquish does Cole find an opportunity to separate himself from the Source in the Wasteland."

Later, I pointed to a second major scene where it is quite confusing with respect to the speaker.

"The other vexing scene for me occurs during Long Live the Queen when the Source/Cole confronts Phoebe at the Bay Mirror. This happens after the Source/Cole has been informed that Phoebe has prevented the vanquish of a do-gooder. Exactly who is warning Phoebe that the role of Queen and the Source require absolute morality clarity. Neither he nor she can even appear to be aiding and abetting the side of good. If so, then factions within the demonic underworld will arise. And, then, the Source/Cole declares that we should wish ourselves both dead in order to avoid the horrible consequences of betrayal.

If this is the Source speaking, then no such conversation should have occurred. He simply would have demanded that Phoebe cease and desist, lest he (the Source) exact punishment upon her sisters. But, the tone of the conversation is more gentle in its approach even if it is no less clear in its prediction. The speaker has empathy for what Phoebe has tried to do, but clearly explains that in accepting coronation as Queen she has crossed a line of no return. Adapt or die are the only possible paths.

Initially, the Source suppressed Cole's humanity, as long as the outcome seemed in doubt. That is, perhaps Cole could have done to the Source what he seemingly had done to Belthazor. Once assured of success - and the coronation merely confirms this - the Source might have given free reign to Cole to speak for purely instrumental reasons. That is, this was the best way to "convince" Phoebe."

[Scott]

Jate88 shared a posting on Wikipedia in the hope that this might illuminate the issue. According to the Wikipedia, "'(T)hey call Cole's "possession" in season four a merger.' Could that be the explanation? Though I think he was possessed earlier on in s4. Maybe that can help provide some answers."

Ljones, however, could find no evidence of a "merger" in the Wikipedia article. She, then, quoted the passage in its entirety.

"Cole begins having nightmares of becoming the new Source. He tries to fight becoming the Source, but the Source keeps him from revealing what happened to the sisters, as the Seer attempts to guide him on his new dark path."

"Now fully controlled by the Source, Cole orchestrates a number of events to spur Phoebe to call off her wedding, in order to marry Phoebe in a demonic ceremony (which is disguised as a private ceremony)."

"Cole's love is now strongly effecting the Source, and Cole refuses to be confirmed as the Source; The Seer then goes to try to convince Phoebe to go back to Cole. When Cole is attacked by an evil wizard who schemes to seize the Source's powers, Cole offers to give up his position as the Source, and to transfer the Source voluntarily into the Wizard, as a final attempt to rid himself of evil power and win Phoebe back.[18]

However, during the transfer ceremony, the Seer makes Phoebe believe that the wizard is in fact killing Cole. With the Seer's coaching, Phoebe uses her baby's powers and kills the wizard before the power transfer can be complete, nullifying Cole's final effort to become good again."

Afterwards, ljones wonders how full control equates to a merger, when a merger is not mentioned at all.

"Cole is being described as "fully controlled by the Source" or Phoebe's murder of the wizard as an act that nullified Cole's effort to become good again. I saw nothing about Cole's possession being described as a "merger" or that Cole decided to give in to the Source's influence. In which paragraphs were these descriptions made?"

Jate88 cited a different text from Wikipedia on the Source. This, however, pertains to the growth of powers as the particular demon emboyding the Source changes over time.

According to Wikipedia, "It appears that the Source itself was a very ancient demonic being, that moved into the body of each demon that held the position of the Source. It then gradually absorbed/integrated the powers and personality, of each demon that held the position of the Source, into itself. Therefore, each demon that defeated other demons to hold the position of the Source, including defeating a previous Source, would over a long period of time, literally become the same Source with even more powers. It does not appear that this was generally known to most demons."

Comparisons between possession of Cole by the Source and temporary possession of mortals such as Shane then were made. As I pointed out in another thread, these arguments don't illuminate very much at all. The latter, all possessed by the Source in Charmed Again, are mortal. Cole was a formerly magical being whose body, according to the Seer, yearned for magical completion. Second, those possessions were brief, whereas the possession of Cole was intended to last all the way up to and through the coronation of the new Source.

As Emeralda argued, "If you want to see what possession/merging looks like, re-watch Charmed Again--Shane was totally possssed by the Source; Shane had no conscious thought of what he was doing while both Cole and Phoebe did. It's partially why I don't like S4; if they were going to do something as dumb as that whole possess-Cole thing, Cole should've been totally possessed."

Fourever Charmed share my disapproval of this line of reasoning as she noted, "But Shane wasn't magical, let alone a notoriously powerful half demon or a Charmed One. Magic can fight magic (or attempt/make an effort to), whereas powerless mortals tend to get the short end of the stick."

In attempting to reconcile the points of view put forth by ljones and Jate88, I argued that there was no necessary contradiction between these seemingly opposed ideas. I noted that:

"I don't believe there is a contradiction between what you are interpreting and what ljones is advocating. She is describing the period between Charmed and Dangerous and the coronation (We're Off to See the Wizard). As the entity Source/Cole had not been coronated, no such "merger" has you have quoted has occurred. After the coronation, what you suggest may very well be correct. And, it is that more powerful entity, the new Source, that is vanquished by the Charmed Ones in Long Live the Queen.

When Cole is in the Wasteland and begins collecting new powers, he apparently is able to amass not only the powers of vanquished demons as we see in Witch Way Now, but also claim the powers of the vanquished new Source, as these have not yet been recycled and claimed by yet another newly crowned Source. This is perhaps what gives him such vast powers to make him Mr. Invincible and what attracted him to the Avatars who sought to exploit his collection of powers for their own ends.

In addition, after Cole leaves the Wasteland, there is never ever an atttempt made to reclaim the mantle of the Source. What does happen is that Zankou, admittedly an already powerful demon, begins acquiring new powers by stealing them from demons he vanquishes in order to bolster his bevy of powers. He cannot reclaim the Source's old powers since these have been "seized" by the Avatars.

Admittedly, this line of reasoning has one major flaw. In Desperate Housewitches, we see the Source "reincarnated" once more. Fortunately, he doesn't demonstrate any powers other than to sniff out "non Evil". The Charmed Ones, of course, get all worked up about his reappearance. Then, again, they really don't understand what happened to Cole after the Wasteland or what happens to powers after demons are vanquished. Indeed, that question is never even raised after Paige made great note of it in Charmed and Dangerous. So what exactly was summoned: the body of the Source sans powers, as I would argue, or the Source itself - with all its powers, as the Charmed Ones feared? Logic perhaps dictates that it be the former, not the latter."

[Scott]

A different approach was taken by Fourever Charmed who, in quoting pubesy, expressed herself in favor of the Cole succumbs thesis. As Pubesy wrote,

"now this can be interpreted in two ways:
1: when cole was assured phoebe would remain by his side, cole VOLUNTARILY gave up the inner battle and in some ways "worked together" with the source. ie he accepted his new identity. thats why he still remained "cole-like" in terms of personality, whilst being the source.

2: when phoebe accepted the queen of the underworld gig, there was no longer any reason for cole to have power over the source within. The reason why the source could not fully control cole was due to the risk of losing the love of cole's life. when this was no longer a risk, the source was finally able to completely consume cole. or suppress him at least.

which one is correct? i have no idea. it depends on what you believe."

Fourever Charmed then wrote:

"I'd say the second one. Why? Because it reminds me of "Bride and Gloom" from season three:

Quote:Cole: And she's got the power to turn Prue evil and turn you evil too. That's what's happening here.

Phoebe: So? Isn't that the way you want me?

(Phoebe kisses him passionately.)

Cole: Mmm, no. That is not how I want you to be. It's not how I want us to be. Our only chance is if we're both good.



Cole did not want to be evil. Phoebe taught him how to be good, and he wanted to stay good, so I cannot at all accept that Cole would voluntarily decide that he wants to be evil again as soon as Phoebe turns evil. After all, he didn't before, so I can't accept he'd suddenly change his mind the second time.

It's much more believable that after Cole's struggle (being slowly snuffed out by The Source for so long), with his last lifeline to good being Phoebe, that once she turned, The Source was finally able to take full control over him because the object of Cole's desire was finally with him, and thus he just didn't have the strength and will to fight The Source anymore."

[Scott]

Indeed, Esmeralda rejected the claim that Cole was possessed by the Source. As she argued, "The Source was supposed to be the most powerful evil ever--the Source of All Evil. No, Cole could not/would not have been able to fight him. Maybe at first, but not the full time...his eyes should've turned black and stayed black and we should've not recognized any of our Cole in him, and he should've murdered Paige to end the Charmed Ones rather than just make Phoebe not trust her. As long as Cole still so obviously loved Phoebe, he was NOT possessed! Influenced, yes; possessed and not liable for his actions, no."

Esmeralda went on to note further that not even Phoebe was possessed - via the tonic - by the Source or his intentions.

"Ditto for Phoebe and the potion. The Seer knew who and what Phoebe was and would've seen exactly what sort of potion was needed to control her and her baby. The fact that Phoebe went back to herself so quickly shows that she was also influenced, but not possessed and just as liable for her evil actions as Cole was for his."

In conclusion, Esmeralda noted:

"There is no way Cole was totally controlled by the Source. If he was, he would've killed the Charmed Ones without a second thought, especially Paige who he felt was keeping Phoebe from him. Merged isn't a good word either. Influenced, definitely, which is what I think pushed hm over the side into evil, since still had the chance of deciding what was good and what was evil and making a conscious decision to do good or evil. Ditto for Phoebe when she was being influenced by the Seer's potion. As long as they could not do something that they felt went against their own mortality (kill/torture the other Charmed Ones), they were not toally controlled, merged or possessed.

If The Source and The Seer wanted a Charmed baby, The Source would've very simply raped a Charmed One (not necessarily Phoebe, in fact probably Piper, since she was more powerful, and that's what the Source would've looked for) until she bacame pregnant and transfer the baby to the Seer and then vanquish the mother, so he could then vanquish the Charmed Ones. He wouldn't have given making a Charmed One the Queen a second thought. It was Cole who wanted Phoebe as his queen, not the Source."

[Scott]

Fourever Charmed disagreed with this stark assessment and noted that despite his best efforts the Source could not overcome the pull of love. As she wrote:

"And his love for Phoebe was key. Over the years, Charmed has made a point of love being a very powerful element: case in point, "The Power of Two," when Andy hears Prue's call to him as a ghost, or in "The Seven Year Witch," when Leo feels Piper die because their love is so strong that her soul calls out to his. This was another of the show's nods to the power of love. Yes, it was The Source of All Evil, but he was going up against something so strong that Cole wasn't such an easy take over as he thought (and I believe that was even admitted in an episode).

As for Phoebe, possession by The Source of All Evil v.s. a regular dose of "evil tonic" is not the same thing. Of course Phoebe would bounce back faster. It's not like she even took the tonic all the time anyway. (Nor was it just being digested just by her, it was being split between her and Unborn Halliwell.) Phoebe was influenced, but not possessed, which furthers the idea that she'd recover from the tonic more quickly."